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steven36

India says law permits agencies to snoop on citizen’s devices

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steven36

The Indian government said on Tuesday that it is “empowered” to intercept, monitor, or decrypt any digital communication “generated, transmitted, received, or stored” on a citizen’s device in the country in the interest of national security or to maintain friendly relations with foreign states.

 

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Citing section 69 of the Information Technology Act, 2000, and section 5 of the Telegraph Act, 1885, Minister of State for Home Affairs G. Kishan Reddy said local law empowers federal and state government to “intercept, monitor or decrypt or cause to be intercepted or monitored or decrypted any information generated, transmitted, received or stored in any computer resource in the interest of the sovereignty or integrity of India, the security of the state, friendly relations with foreign states or public order or for preventing incitement to the commission of any cognizable offence relating to above or for investigation of any offence.”

 

Reddy’s remarks were in response to the parliament, where a lawmaker had asked if the government had snooped on citizens’ WhatsApp, Messenger, Viber, and Google calls and messages.

The lawmaker’s question was prompted after 19 activists, journalists, politicians, and privacy advocates in India revealed earlier this month that their WhatsApp communications may have been compromised.

 

WhatsApp has said that Israeli spyware manufacturer NSO’s tools have been used to send malware to 1,400 users. The Facebook-owned company has in recent weeks alerted users whose accounts had been compromised. The social juggernaut earlier this month sued NSO alleging that its tools were being used to hack WhatsApp users.

 

NSO has maintained that it only sells its tools to government and intelligence agencies, an assertion that stoked fear among some that the state could be behind targeting the aforementioned 19 people — and perhaps more — in the country.

 

Reddy did not directly address the questions, but in a blanket written statement said that “authorized agencies as per due process of law, and subject to safeguards as provided in the rules” can intercept or monitor or decrypt “any information from any computer resource” in the country.

 

He added that each case of such interception has to be approved by the  Union Home Secretary (in case of federal government) and by the Home Secretary of the State (in case of state government.)

 

Last month, the Indian government said it was moving ahead with its plan to revise existing rules to regulate intermediaries — social media apps and others that rely on users to create their content — as they are causing “unimaginable disruption” to democracy.

 

It told the country’s apex court that it would formulate the rules by January 15 of next year.

 

A report published today by New Delhi-based Software Law and Freedom Centre (SFLC) found that more than 100,000 telephone interception are issued by the federal government alone every year.

 

“On adding the surveillance orders issued by the state governments to this, it becomes clear that India routinely surveils her citizens’ communications on a truly staggering scale,” the report said.

 

The non-profit organization added that the way current laws that enable law enforcement agencies to conduct surveillance on citizens’ private communications are “opaque” as they are run “solely by the executive arm of the government, and make no provisions for independent oversight of the surveillance process.”

 

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mp68terr
1 hour ago, steven36 said:

The Indian government said on Tuesday that it is “empowered” to intercept, monitor, or decrypt any digital communication “generated, transmitted, received, or stored” on a citizen’s device in the country in the interest of national security or to maintain friendly relations with foreign states.

At least it's clear.

Better to have clear rules/laws than having countries where governments are pretending to protect the people while their agencies are doing what they want.

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steven36
8 hours ago, mp68terr said:

At least it's clear.

Better to have clear rules/laws than having countries where governments are pretending to protect the people while their agencies are doing what they want.

So your all for a surveillance state as long as  the country is clear on there objective ? When your dealing with government your dealing with parties with different objectives like in the USA most surveillance powers came from the patriot act  nobody complained about it because people were scared of terror attacks  no body complained or even cared about it tell like 12 years latter when Snowden leaked stuff the NSA done because of it.

 

Perry Fellwock  done the same thing Snowden did back in 1971, Nixon was so bad he had group of hired spies every since he was vice president so even when he lost the election the 1st time to JFK  he was spying on the Kennedy's  or anyone that got in his way ,  in 1972 it all came to a head when  Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein exposed Watergate   and made Nixon step down,   and Ford took office and ended the Vietnam war  . Legislation was passed in 1973 to stop the NSA from spying, but later ignored because of terrorism . Since Snowden done it again in 2013  some in goverment wrote the freedom act and had the NSA powers cut way back as far as in country .  

 

When a country makes its clear there a surveillance state there is nothing you can do much to get the laws changed because it's legal for them to do it. If Apple , Facebook  etc hasto  go up against India in a court of law  they dont stand a chance . Apple went up against the FBI in the USA and the FBI  drooped the case. No one in Government  is hiding there objectives in the USA they have to get laws passed in order  for it to  be legal witch is hard because of the Constitution . A.G. Bar and  the FBI has been clear on there objectives  but objectives and Laws are  two different things  so the only way they can  do it now is outside the law  and lots of times they lose in court , sometimes they lose there jobs , and sometimes are punished  for breaking the law. The legal system is a two edge sword. But if it were a  legal law ,  it would not  be breaking the law  and you would not stand a chance in court  because it's legal.

 

That the way the USA  always been the Government  try to hide things  from the people because if they find out they will revolt on them and the powers that be will be voted out and they want have jobs anymore , People use to be naive  and think the goverment never lie to them  like in the 1950s but since the age  of TV every thing said  and done was recorded  and in 2019  you can watch the videos and see all the lies they told . So no one in the USA trust there Government for many years now every since the mid 1960s they haven't.. But  whistle blowers  have been exposing any corruption in the USA since  1777   so the truth is always  reveled time and time again. 

 

1st time the USA used surveillance they blamed it on Communism   to stop nuclear wars and people believed them and they almost got us in to one . People woke up when they had to serve in Vietnam and seen that North Vietnam was just fighting for there freedom after being occupied  by  France for years  they just wanted to be left alone so they join the communist party to get there country back.  They was no different than there forefathers was when they run Britain out of the USA.

 

Now the  world's excuse is terrorism to spy on there people now it's a world wide problem it's not west vs east anymore they all  want to do it.  Now the UK claim  there own people  the  far right is there  biggest terrorist threat. they have been a surveillance state for years.  it started because some in Ireland wanted there freedom .  The biggest problem with the west have always been colonial rule it's been a problem since the days of the Roman Empire if it was not for Rome defeating most of Europe  Paris France and most  big EU cites would not exist today.

Edited by steven36

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mp68terr
8 hours ago, steven36 said:

So your all for a surveillance state as long as  the country is clear on there objective ?

Not at all!

The comment was not about agreeing or not with the law, it was about states clearly stating what they are up to, versus states where agencies do things against the country laws. At the end both are the same surveillance states, but clearly stating versus hiding/lying is not the same behavior.

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Nonetheless, this provision (allowing agencies or law enforcement to snoop on public's devices) is surely open to abuse especially against political dissent. And will likely breaching existing privacy laws. Especially when there is no crystal clear SOP from agencies and enforcement when dealing with phone snooping.

 

Same thing was happened at Malaysia, where earlier reports claimed that police (and MCMC-Malaysian Communications And Multimedia Commission) that they can check people phones on random (and possibly can snoop on people's devices as well). But later the deputy Home Minister later confirms that can only checking the devices only when individuals are suspected of committing wrongdoings under the following acts (a warrant will be required as part of SOP) :

  • Penal Code (Act 574)
  • Section 233 under the Communications and Multimedia Act (Act 588)
  • Sedition Act 1948 (Act 15)
  • Security Offences (Special Measures) 2012 Act (747)
  • Anti-Trafficking in Persons and Anti-Smuggling of Migrants 2007 (Act 670)
  • Prevention of Terrorism Act 2015 (Act 769).

While they (Home Ministry) assures that phone checking will be done as per SOP and the laws, but like what I said, this provision can be subjected to abuse and this will worried citizens as well (especially if this provision breaches their privacy, and it is not done without a proper and crystal clear SOP).

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2019/11/20/home-ministry-pdrm-can-only-check-phones-belonging-to-suspects-and-individuals-involved-in-ongoing-investigations

https://www.malaysianwireless.com/2019/11/pdrm-bug-intercept-tap-malaysia-handphone/

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steven36
17 hours ago, mp68terr said:

Not at all!

The comment was not about agreeing or not with the law, it was about states clearly stating what they are up to, versus states where agencies do things against the country laws. At the end both are the same surveillance states, but clearly stating versus hiding/lying is not the same behavior.

Oh so you was just USA hating ? Actually  The Patriot Act and the President's Surveillance Program (PSP)  gave them the power to bypass the FISA Court for surveillance orders in cases of national security. Under pressure from the public, the warrantless wiretapping program was allegedly ended in January 2007.Many details about the surveillance activities conducted in the United States were revealed in the disclosure by Edward Snowden in June 2013.

 

I seen the USA  Government  doing surveillance  at a public place after 9-11 and knew they were watching  the internet long before Snowden  , It was just the fact that if you talked  about such things on the internet people said you was a conspiracy theorist all Snowden did was wake up the people who were in denial of  The Patriot Act and the President's Surveillance Program. I already knew it was going on. 

 

I knew something  bad was going to happen before 9-11 even, because i was subcontracting for the U.S military  on a base were had Nukes building something  for the goverment .  I worked there a good while  it was very easy to get on base  then like a few months  before 9-11 they made it hard to get on the base  they raise the security level up were people with a record could not enter .  the Government knew a attack was going to happen somewhere they just didn't know were . All the dangerous areas in the military stateside  were put on high alert a few months before 9-11 .

 

Just because they hid it from the public didn't mean it was not legal it was . People were just to blind to see it at the time. The  USA people  wanted it outlawed so they wrote the Freedom act that makes it illegal for NSA to tap people from the USA .But its still legal for them to tap people not from the USA because national security matters still exist . The NSA  itself when officially established  by President Truman in 1952 was kept a secret from the people but it was passed by the goverment  in secret but it was law.

 

The USA  have always used mass surveillance as part of wartime censorship to control communications that could damage the war effort and aid the enemy.

When the towers fell the USA has been unofficially  at war every since . they said it plain as day  that was a War  on terror , people get killed everyday fighting just people are to blind to see they are at war because they not there were it happening. So  is many other countries  fighting against terror .

 

When they done it in 1950s -1970s  it was the cold war . Seems they always some kind of war been  going on every since world war 2 .

 

Just because people in the goverment lie to  peoples face  don't make what they do illegal . that just means  its classified info that the public have no access too.

 

The reason i say your just hating is  most all countries after they suffer a terror attack passed there own version of the patriot  act

 

What  India goverment says in the OP  this has been the law since 2008

 

The Indian parliament passed the Information Technology Act of 2008 with no debate, giving the government fiat power to tap all communications without a court order or a warrant. Section 69 of the act states "Section 69 empowers the Central Government/State Government/ its authorized agency to intercept, monitor or decrypt any information generated, transmitted, received or stored in any computer resource if it is necessary or expedient so to do in the interest of the sovereignty or integrity of India, defense of India, security of the State, friendly relations with foreign States or public order or for preventing incitement to the commission of any cognizable offence or for investigation of any offense."

 

If it was so clear  as you say what they passed back in 2008 why must  they make a statement in 2019  on the powers they had for years ? Sounds like people were ignoring the facts just like people  ignored the facts of the patriot act because they was scared and just want protected .

 

Intelligence Act (France)


Although framed by the government as a response to the Paris attacks of January 2015, the passage of the Intelligence Act was actually long in the making. The previous law providing a framework for the surveillance programs of French intelligence agencies was the Wiretapping Act of 1991, aimed at regulating telephone wiretaps. Many surveillance programs developed in the 2000s—especially to monitor Internet communications—were rolled out outside of any legal framework. As early as 2008, the French government's White Paper of Defense and National Security stressed that "intelligence activities do not have the benefit of a clear and sufficient legal framework", and said that "legislative adjustments" were necessary.

 

Wiretaps and access to metadata

Techniques of communications surveillance covered by the Act include telephone or Internet wiretaps (L. 852-1), access to identifying data and other metadata (L. 851-1), geotagging (L. 851-4) and computer network exploitation (L. 853-2), all of which are subject to authorization of a renewable duration of 4 months.

 

France already had there version of The Patriot Act in the making and used terrorism as a excuse to make it law .

 

The bottom line is  many countries  have surveillance powers ,  People dont know how any goverment is going to use them tell they get caught at it.  It not illegal as long as they don't get caught in the USA  because  you have to prove guilt in a court of law and it's still legal for U.S.  Law enforcement to do it as long as they follow the law and get a warrant witch is easy to do as long as they have enough proof and one warrant can be used  to dragnet the internet and Phones all across the USA as long as it's the DHS, FBI or US Marshals doing it and not the NSA or CIA .  I hardly ever seen the FBI  were i live  if there looking for someone here they most the send  the US Marshals in .

Edited by steven36

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