Batu69 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Why Linux sucks? No why, Linux doesn't suck! Miguel de Icaza, the creator of Gnome and Mono, opined about Linux problems in a similar way, here's his opinion where he reiterates a lot of things mentioned below. He stopped using Linux in 2012, saying about his Mac the following, "Computing-wise that three week vacation turned out to be very relaxing. Machine would suspend and resume without problem, Wi-Fi just worked, audio did not stop working, I spend three weeks without having to recompile the kernel to adjust this or that, nor fighting the video drivers, or deal with the bizarre and random speed degradation that my ThinkPad suffered", highlighting problematic areas in Linux. Recently Linus Torvalds expressed his utter disappointment with the state of Linux on the desktop. Ubuntu developers decided to push Ubuntu as a viable gaming platform and they identified the topics which need to be addressed in order to achieve this goal. Uncannily the list, they've come up with, matches the list, you can read below, almost verbatim. Some of Fedora developers proposed to change this distro so it provides stable APIs/ABIs and avoids regressions if possible. Attention: This list desperately needs to be reorganized because some of the problems mentioned here are crucial and some are not. There's a great chance that you, as a user, won't ever encounter any of them (if you have the right hardware, never mess with your system and use quite a limited set of software from your distro exclusively). Here are a few important considerations before you start reading this article: If you believe Linux is perfect and it has no problems, please close this page. If you think any Linux criticism is only meant to groundlessly revile Linux, please close this page. If you think the purpose of this article is to show that "nothing ever works in Linux or Linux is barely usable", you are wrong, please close this page. If you believe Linux and Linux users will work/live fine without commercial software and games, please close this page. If you think I'm here to promote Windows or Mac OS, please close this page. If you think I'm here to spread lies or FUD about Linux, please close this page immediately and never ever come back. What are you doing here anyway? Please go back to flame wars and defamations. Keep in mind that this list serves the purpose to show what needs to be fixed in Linux rather than to find faults in it. Summary No stability, bugs, regressions, regressions and regressions: There's an incredible amount of regressions (both in the kernel and in user space applications) when things which used to work break inexplicably, some of regressions can even lead to data loss. Basically there is no quality control (QA/QC) and regression testing in most Open Source projects (including the kernel) - Microsoft, for instance, reports that Windows 8 received 1,240,000,000 hours of testing whereas new kernel releases get, I guess, under 10,000 hours of testing - and every Linux kernel release is comparable to a new Windows version. Serious bugs which impede normal workflow can take years to be resolved. A lot of crucial hardware (e.g. GPUs, Wi-Fi cards) isn't properly supported. Both Linux 4.1.9/4.1.10, which are considered "stable" (moreover this kernel series is also LTS(!)), crash under any network load. WTF?? Hardware issues: Under Linux many devices and devices features are still poorly supported or not supported at all. Some hardware (e.g. Broadcom Wi-Fi adapters) cannot be used unless you already have a working Internet connection. New hardware often becomes supported months after introduction. Specialized software to manage devices like printers, scanners, cameras, webcams, audio players, smartphones, etc. almost always just doesn't exist - so you won't be able to fully control your new iPad and update firmware on your Galaxy SIII. Linux graphics support is a big bloody mess because kernel/X.org APIs/ABIs constantly change and NVIDIA/ATI/Broadcom/etc. companies don't want to allocate extra resources and waste their money just to keep up with an insane rate of changes in the Open Source software. The lack of standardization, fragmentation, unwarranted & excessive variety, as well as no common direction or vision among different distros: Too many Linux distributions with incompatible and dissimilar configurations, packaging systems and incompatible libraries. Different distros employ totally different desktop environments, different graphical and console applications for configuring your computer settings. E.g. Debian based distros oblige you to use the strictly text based `dpkg-reconfigure` utility for certain system related maintenance tasks. The lack of cooperation between open source developers and internal wars: There's no central body to organize the development of different parts of the open source stack which often leads to a situation when one project introduces changes which break other projects (this problem is also reflected in "Unstable APIs/ABIs" below). Even though the Open Source movement lacks manpower, different Linux distros find enough resources to fork projects (Gentoo developers are going to develop a udev alternative; a discord in ffmpeg which led to the emergence of libav; a situation around OpenOffice/LibreOffice; a new X.org/Wayland alternative - Mir) and to use own solutions. A lot of rapid changes: Most Linux distros have very short upgrade/release cycles (as short as six months in some cases, or e.g. Arch which is a rolling distro, or Fedora which gets updated every six months), thus you are constantly bombarded with changes you don't expect or don't want. LTS (long term support) distros are in most cases unsuitable for the desktop users due to the policy of preserving applications versions (and usually there's no officially approved way to install bleeding edge applications - please, don't remind me of PPAs and backports - these hacks are not officially supported, nor guaranteed to work). Another show-stopping problem for LTS distros is that LTS kernels often do not support new hardware. Unstable APIs/ABIs & the lack of real compatibility: It's very difficult to use old open and closed source software in new distros (in many cases it becomes impossible due to changes in core Linux components like kernel, GCC or glibc). Almost non-existent backwards compatibility makes it incredibly difficult and costly to create closed source applications for Linux distros. Open Source software which doesn't have active developers or maintainers gets simply dropped if its dependencies cannot be satisfied because older libraries have become obsolete and they are no longer available. For this reason for instance a lot of KDE3/Qt3 applications are not available in modern Linux distros even though alternatives do not exist. Developing drivers out of the main Linux kernel tree is an excruciating and expensive chore. There's no WinSxS equivalent for Linux - thus there's no simple way to install conflicting libraries. In 2015 Debian dropped support for Linux Standard Base (LSB). Viva, incompatibility! Software issues: Not that many games (mostly Indies) and few AAA games (Valve's efforts and collaboration with games developers have resulted in many recent games being released for Linux, however every year thousands of titles are still released for Windows exclusively*. More than 98% of existing and upcoming AAA titles are still unavailable in Linux). No familiar Windows software, no Microsoft Office (LibreOffice still has major troubles opening correctly Microsoft Office produced documents), no native CIFS (simple to configure and use, as well as password protected and encrypted network file sharing) equivalent, no Active Directory or its featurewise equivalent. Money, enthusiasm, motivation and responsibility: I predicted years ago that FOSS developers would start drifting away from the platform as FOSS is no longer a playground, it requires substantial efforts and time, i.e. the fun is over, developers want real money to get the really hard work done. FOSS development, which lacks financial backing, shows its fatigue and disillusionment. The FOSS platform after all requires financially motivated developers as underfunded projects start to wane and critical bugs stay open for years. One could say "Good riddance", but the problem is that oftentimes those dying projects have no alternatives or similarly featured successors. No polish, no consistency and no HIG adherence (even KDE developers admit it). This article is bullocks! Linux works for me/for my grandpa/for my aunt/etc. Hey, I love when people are saying this, however here's a list of Linux problems which affect pretty much every Linux user. Neither Adobe Flash, nor Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome use video decoding and output acceleration in Linux, thus youtube clips will drain your laptop battery a lot faster than e.g. in Windows. Adobe says they are fed up with video decoding acceleration bugs under Linux and refuse to re-add support for this feature (it was available previously but then they removed it to stop the torrent of bug reports). No, Adobe is not guilty that video acceleration is a mess in Linux. NVIDIA Optimus technology and ATI dynamic GPU switching are still not supported on Linux out of the box in top tier Linux distros (Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora). To be fair Linux Mint 17.2 now supports Optimus but in order to change your active GPU you have to log off/log on which is terribly inconvenient. Over 70% laptops out there contain either Optimus or AMD switchable graphics. Keyboard shortcuts handling for people using local keyboard layouts is broken (this bug is now 10 years old). Not everyone lives in English speaking countries. Keyboard handling in X.org is broken by design - when you have a pop up or an open menu, global keyboard shortcuts/keybindings don't (GTK) work (QT). There's no easy way to use software which is not offered by your distro repositories, specially the software which is available only as sources. For the average Joe, who's not an IT specialist, there's no way at all. You don't play games, do you? Linux still has very few AAA games: for the past three years less than a dozen AAA titles have been made available. Most Linux games on Steam are Indies. Microsoft Office is not available for Linux. LibreOffice/OpenOffice still has major troubles properly opening and rendering documents created in Microsoft Office (alas, it's a standard in the business world). Besides LibreOffice has a drastically different user interface and many features work differently. Several crucial Windows applications are not available under Linux: Quicken, Adobe authoring products (Photoshop, Audition, etc.), Corel authoring products (CorelDraw and others), Autodesk software (3ds Max, Autocad, etc.), serious BluRay/DVD authoring products, professional audio applications (CuBase, SoundForge, etc.). In 2016 there's still no alternative to Windows Network File Sharing (network file sharing that is easily configurable, discoverable, encrypted and password protected). NFS and SSHFS are two lousy totally user unfriendly alternatives. Linux doesn't have a reliably working hassle free fast native (directly mountable via the kernel; FUSE doesn't cut it) MTP implementation. In order to work with your MTP devices, like ... Linux based Android phones you'd better use ... Windows or MacOS X. Update: a Russian programmer was so irked by libMTP he wrote his own complete Qt based application which talks to the Linux kernel directly using libusb. Meet Android-File-Transfer-Linux. Too many things in Linux require manual configuration using text files: NVIDIA Optimus and AMD switchable graphics, UHD displays, custom displays' refresh rates, multiseat setups, USB 3G/LTE modems, various daemons configuration, advanced audio setups to name a few. Forget about managing your e-gadgets (specially smartphones, e.g. iPhones are useless under Linux). In many cases forget about your printer advanced features like ink level reporting. Yeah, let's consider Linux an OS ready for the desktop. Read full article here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbingStorm Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I use windows during the week to do my work but on weekends its Linux play time and i enjoy it alot. I've got over 20 versions on DVDs and at the moment I'm liking Makulu Linux xfce.The aero edition is nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VileTouch Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 LOL!, i have... oh almost a decade complaning about these things, and every time fanboys try to shoot me down. (of course, without providing a good counter argument). Quote A lot of people who are new to Linux or those who use a very tiny subset of applications are quick to disregard the entire list saying things like, "Audio in Linux works just fine me." or "I've never had any troubles with video in Linux." and that's the problem, people who do not see a problem with it, most likely are not looking hard enough...or maybe do not yet understand how things are meant to work....or are too busy customizing their desktop and gawking at it...NOT trying to get work done. (granted, that's a loose term, but still stands.) me, i'm still waiting for X to die and udev to be officially superseded before ever writing another line of code for linux. hopefully by then some semblance of standarization will have leaked into linux devs's tough skulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 13 hours ago, VileTouch said: LOL!, i have... oh almost a decade complaning about these things, and every time fanboys try to shoot me down. (of course, without providing a good counter argument). and that's the problem, people who do not see a problem with it, most likely are not looking hard enough...or maybe do not yet understand how things are meant to work....or are too busy customizing their desktop and gawking at it...NOT trying to get work done. (granted, that's a loose term, but still stands.) me, i'm still waiting for X to die and udev to be officially superseded before ever writing another line of code for linux. hopefully by then some semblance of standarization will have leaked into linux devs's tough skulls. I stay on Linux for weeks at a time just listing to music and watching videos . Ive not really made no changes as far as my desktop since i 1st installed it witch leads me to believe you not tested it since a decade ago or just dont know how to set it up. I remember once said you tired to code on it and failed at it and I think you had it in for Linux every since. Don't fell bad many have failed and went to codeing only for windows because DX is much easier and cheaper to code for I dont want to watch videos on a rinky dink laptop no ways I'm a big tower sort of guy with a full 1080p screen so i could careless about laptop issues . Quote Ubuntu 16.04 is expected to be the last version of Ubuntu that will ship with the standard X server Quote Shuttleworth announced on 21 October 2015 that Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, due to be released on 21 April 2016, will be called Xenial Xerus.[235] In May 2015, Shuttleworth indicated that Ubuntu 16.04 LTS will likely include Unity 8 and Mir, but that users will have a choice of that or Unity 7 and X.org. He said, "Unity 8 will be an option for 16.04 and we'll let the community decide the default for 16.04. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases So the end of X will be soon this version will work on the Mir display server . due to be released on 21 April 2016 RebeccaBlackOS is using wayland instead of X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1v1n3D Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 lol, I have been on Linux since Mandrake Linux 1998 almost 20 years. I still love Linux over Windows even then it was more stable it's just not for noobs or people who are computer illiterate or lazy. Soon like 2 years tops Linux will get the boost it needs in the gaming industry once all the steam machines sell a few million and people start adopting Steam-OS Windows will be gone, why you think they are partnering with Linux. Microsoft knows there days are numbered considering Android is the majority of the mobile market by a long-shot, it's like reverse roles on Microsoft and they can't stand it. Not to mention Linux is faster in almost every aspect except gaming and they are so small of the market hardly any programmers compared to the Microsoft team again once that hits at least 15-20% of the market it's going to grow fast from there they are still like 5.4% out of 4 billion people online. https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator DKT27 Posted February 12, 2016 Administrator Share Posted February 12, 2016 Steam machines and SteamOS is a good point. If Valve manages to pull it off then the PC industry will get a new direction to it. But expensive hardware will not make the cut for free software though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 minute ago, DKT27 said: Steam machines and SteamOS is a good point. If Valve manages to pull it off then the PC industry will get a new direction to it. But expensive hardware will not make the cut for free software though. Linux mint gets a good amount of donations every month . I cant wait tell this summer when Linux Mint 18 Sarah comes out i even beta test it . Its basically the only beta testing i do now is for open source . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbingStorm Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 What I need and am sure others would too is some sort of itunes for Linux.Maybe I'll run windows in a VM on Linux so I can install itunes to update my iphone. Also looking forward to mint 18 and Ubuntu 16.04. You would think with the thousands of ppl working on Linux distros they could sort out all the problems in the article above.Games don't bother me I have an xbone for that and am ranked in the top 10% of gamers in the world(according to Microsoft )LOL Yes Linux can be a bit of a mess but its also amazing how well it improves year by year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pequi Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On quinta-feira, 11 de fevereiro de 2016 at 6:56 AM, Batu69 said: A lot of rapid changes: Most Linux distros have very short upgrade/release cycles (as short as six months in some cases, or e.g. Arch which is a rolling distro, or Fedora which gets updated every six months), thus you are constantly bombarded with changes you don't expect or don't want. "thus you are constantly bombarded with changes you don't expect or don't want." Right !!! Well, at least Windows had the good sense to make a "secure" OS, that does not need any "recommended" patches every other day. And having to log off and on after changing a video driver ? Absolutely absurd !!! You could spend that time much more productively, rebooting. I just hope the guy that wrote the article invests the bribe money well. Because his credibility is shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Pequi said: "thus you are constantly bombarded with changes you don't expect or don't want." Right !!! Well, at least Windows had the good sense to make a "secure" OS, that does not need any "recommended" patches every other day. And having to log off and on after changing a video driver ? Absolutely absurd !!! You could spend that time much more productively, rebooting. I just hope the guy that wrote the article invests the bribe money well. Because his credibility is shot. This is you're choice with Linux you can stay on LTS release for years and they dont try push you off onto another version like Microsoft does. Linux 17x will get updates tell 2019 ..If you always use bleeding edge releases of Linux that's you're choice too. Best to use LTS for you're work station . I have 2 hhd one with LTS and one for testings newer versions. Arch , Fedora , Slackware versions are meant for highly advanced Linux users there not meant for people who hate change no ways . And the part about changing video drivers is bs too I only need to install AMD drivers once in each distro . I have right now and never needed to fool with it again. You even have a choice of witch drivers you can use ..You can ether use the open source ones that come with it and not fool with them at all or use proprietary ones from you're HW vendor witch are better for HW acceleration If i update drivers in windows i have to reboot. soooo? I think what @D1v1n3D was true to a certain extent ...setting up Linux is not for noobs , using it is easy setting it it up is somewhat harder . You should practice in a vm or old pc you dont care about if you dont know much about it and dont know someone who can do it for you that already knows how . Its not like Windows were it comes pre installed on machines very often for ease of use for noobs . Most complaints about Linux on the Linux forums I hear are from greenhorns who dont know how to set it up. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1v1n3D Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 oh hells yessssss https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/ Vulkan 1.0 is coming to all linux distros soon holly SHIT I'm FREAKING EXCITED TO SEE THIS and not to MENTION STEVE that ReactOS 0.4 https://www.reactos.org/ is released and it is working on all my machines perfectly now lets see if they will incorporate Vulkan 1.0 or wait for 1.1,1.2,1.3, or 1.4... I think that the water just got really murky for Microsucks my dick. I like Win10 just for speed of the system and smooth game-play on newer games but absolutely hate the spying or use of my bandwidth other then for my computer business and gaming, it will be nice to get off the system hog and play all my games on a light linux distro or even ReactOS as it is finally maturing and it's spreading like wildfire in other parts of the world as of yesterdays 0.4 version release. I want to thank Gabe Newell for making it possible to have another option to dxshit and microsucks my dick. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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