steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The FBI has used hacking methods never seen before in the history of law enforcement to bring down the owners and clients of the largest child pornography website found on the dark web to date. A bulletin board website named Playpen that enabled users to sign up and then upload any images they liked was launched in August 2014 on the dark web, and according to court documents, the website's primary purpose was to advertise and distribute child pornography. The dark web is a section of the internet not discoverable by conventional means, such as through a Google or search or by directly entering a website URL. As the websites are hidden, they are perfect for cyber criminals, who list thousands of goods and services for sale on secret underground marketplaces, including narcotics, chemicals, firearms and counterfeit goods, as well as adverts for services such as hacking, gambling and sports betting. Many users of the dark web use the Tor anonymity network to disguise their web traffic and ensure anonymity. The hacking tool that identifies IP and MAC addresses At its peak, Playpen had almost 215,000 members. It had more than 117,000 posts and received an average of 11,000 unique visitors a week. The FBI discovered numerous posts featuring extreme child abuse imagery, as well as providing advice on how potential child sex abusers could avoid detection online. After seizing the computer server running Playpen from a web host in Lenoir, North Carolina, in February 2015, the FBI decided to run the child pornography web site from its own servers in Newington, Virginia, for an additional two weeks between 20 February and 4 March of that year. When visitors accessed the website, the FBI deployed a network investigative technique (NIT) – a hacking tool – and used a single warrant to uncover 1,300 IP addresses, tracing these addresses back to actual individuals. The FBI has used NITs before, but this particular hacking tool is the most sophisticated ever seen to date in law enforcement. It was likely able to exploit holes in outdated Tor browsers to download a tool which captured the actual IP address of the computer, the type of operating system the user's computer was using, the computer's architecture, the computer's MAC address, the computer's host name, the computer's active operating system username and was even able to issue a unique identifier to the user in order to distinguish all data collected from another user's IP address. Even though the method has undoubtedly helped to bring down child pornographers, the American Civil Liberties Union is concerned that the FBI was able to hack into over 1,000 computers with just a single warrant, and believes that Congress and the public should play a role in evaluating whether law enforcement should be allowed to use NITs at all. Many users of the dark web use the Tor anonymity network to disguise their web traffic. Over 1,500 cases have resulted from the investigation Two men were indicted in New York in July 2015 on child pornography charges, the first of many who were arrested throughout 2015. Many of the arrested will see their cases heard throughout the first half of 2016, and the court documents showed that charges were filed against defendants in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Utah and Wisconsin. "Fifteen-hundred or so of these cases are going to end up getting filed out of the same, underlying investigation," Colin Fieman, a federal public defender for the Western District of Washington who is handling several of the related cases, told Motherboard Vice. "There will probably be an escalating stream of these [cases] in the next six months or so," he added. "There is going to be a lot in the pipeline." Source: Business Insider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURbit Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Thank God for saving the Children (the worlds future) or did they - were they even concerned to help the kids or just fill up more prisons. The News will be News and not report on the will fair of the children if it doesn't sell. Why such a low number % (1300) of the " received an average of 11,000 unique visitors a week " when the FBI ran it for two weeks the article said. Subway Jared probably been to the playpen ya think? Will any elected officials be named here from the bust? Men of power or great money? Question - when the law authorizes seemly breaks the same law for being in possession of C P and running the service, are they not as guilty in the same sense ? What is law without a line of difference Good / Bad - crossing that line to do almost the same as the one's arrested (possession of porn) is not law. You need to be as smart as the criminals but not be guilty of the same nature of offense. Wonder how many different ways the "network investigative technique (NIT) – a hacking tool" is being used? What about when they deploy to less likely targets, say like links from this site or others like it. What if the FBI has rogue members (bad seeds) that sell this technology to other criminal persons, countries, then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Prevention is better than cure. Surely the effort should be targeted at those who generate offensive images, not those who view. If they are there, someone will view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 24 minutes ago, SURbit said: Question - when the law authorizes seemly breaks the same law for being in possession of C P and running the service, are they not as guilty in the same sense ? What is law without a line of difference Good / Bad - crossing that line to do almost the same as the one's arrested (possession of porn) is not law. You need to be as smart as the criminals but not be guilty of the same nature of offense. this I always wondered too, but law enforcement have always done this sort of thing like this Drug Enforcement they do a good service to keep our kids from growing up to be addicts and save lives but many of them take drugs also they pose as drug dealers to catch users . also they use addicts as snitches that are using because drug dealers don't trust people they don't know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dMog Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Chancer said: Prevention is better than cure. Surely the effort should be targeted at those who generate offensive images, not those who view. If they are there, someone will view. the problem for law enforcement with this is off set by the fact that the image makers should not just the only target...the image viewers are the ones who also exploit and sexually abuse children don nt ever forget that fact please.... so be careful and think that through that you think they should not be targeted by law enforcement... when warrant laws were created there was no such thing as the internet cops as well as lawmakers had NO IDEA or inkling that searching a single computer was likely to give them information on literally thousands of other law breakers... in this case the worst of the worst offenders sexual predators who target children....i do agree that the laws need to be looked at and changed but really.... do you think they have to get one warrant for one person only to find 3 to 5 thousand sexual child predators then be hogtied because you think the warrant did not cover their presence in child exploitation only because they are not residing at the residence of the searched computer.... it is what is here and there has o be a compromise when it comes to laws to catch these people and still protect others liberties at the same time... what ever happened to us that we think criminals need to be protected ...we do you and i yes we do but the asshats that do shit like this... no way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURbit Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yes what is law but not corrupt itself - be it from the member or the method. A man can do a sane act and the same man can do an insane act, so we seem to see in law. One is capable of both - obey or disobey. When locking up persons for profits - did become a business - that is when human rights suffered and the line of law blurred... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 The problem is there to easy with these people when they catch them I think if there would be tougher laws like were in the 1800s were they give you the death penalty for any type of sexual abuse then people would think twice about committing these crimes and would be much easier to catch the people that don't care if they live or die. Jail is too good for these people . Most will get out and do it again. Hang everyone that's charged in a court of law for sexual abuse that will be doing something too stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURbit Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, steven36 said: The problem is there to easy with these people when they catch them I think if there would be tougher laws like were in the 1800s were they give you the death penalty for any type of sexual abuse then people would think twice about committing these crimes and would be much easier to catch the people that don't care if they live or die. Jail is too good for these people . Most will get out and do it again. Hang everyone that's charged in a court of law for sexual abuse that will be doing something too stop it. If in prison it's found out that you are in there for being a CHMO or what ever they call a child molester, you can rest assured they would rather be dead, their life is hell cause a lot of the other men have kids on the outside they can't protect. So they protect them kids by punishing these CHMO's. I used to think if one stole something - shut their hand in a car door and cripple it, to make them think twice the next time about it again. They just go on welfare and we end up paying for it and them in the end. No I think the answer is somewhere else, more towards of leveling out the money distribution system between the haves and the haves not's. Yes the one's who do these things of this natures for sport need to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dMog Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 minute ago, steven36 said: The problem is there to easy with these people when they catch them I think if there would be tougher laws like were in the 1800s were they give you the death penalty for any type of sexual abuse then people would think twice about committing these crimes and would be much easier to catch the people that don't care if they live or die. Jail is too good for these people . Most will get out and do it again. Hang everyone that's charged in a court of law for sexual abuse that will be doing something too stop it. the problem with that is where do you draw the line on state sanctioned killing...and then there is the fact that it takes 10 years of courts AFTER someone is sentenced to death not to mention the proven fact several people have been put to death that were in fact proven inocent after the fact... not to mention how many people are actually inocent serving life sentences... the courts are not perfect but we do have sad to admit law enforcement and state and federal prosecutes that themselves live on the wrong side of the law...very seldom have prosecutors admitted to doing wrong when it has been proven they suppressed evidence proving someone to be inocent when they sent them to jail or to death...in my home town police and prosecutors at the time actually suppressed evidence that pointed to the real rapist and killer of a rape murder that took place in 1964...they coerced witnesses...fabricated evidence and sent an Innocent 17 year old to jail for life ...during the investigation the real killers wife came to police and told them she thought her husband was the killer and had very credible evidence to prove it... the cops not only discounted her story but kept it from the press and the defense with the help of the prosecutor...the real killer by the way was already going through the courts on extremely similar rape charges and the prosecutors quietly asked for change of venues to some small backwater town that had a courthouse so the press would not notice...the kid was found guilty sentenced and his mother never gave up and 25 years later had him exonerated...but road blocks set up at every turn by police and prosecutors over this 25 year process.... dna finally exonerated him and was also proven to catch the real criminal...but not after the real killer was set free form jail for his other crimes ... and by the way this guy...i saw him every day for year monday to friday as he hung out in the mall where i worked and was stalking some of the female coworkers i had...the police however said the they wee powerless to stop him as the laws as written made it plain he was not breaking any laws....he was one of those guys that when he looked at you the hair would stand up on the back of your neck....very scary guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge-Spammer Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 good for fbi i think people needed to take down lots of websites like that i hate people like them i hope the 1,500 have a very hard time nowdays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Just now, SURbit said: If in prison it's found out that you are in there for being a CHMO or what ever they call a child molester, you can rest assured they would rather be dead, their life is hell cause a lot of the other men have kids on the outside they can't protect. So they protect them kids by punishing these CHMO's. I used to think if one stole something - shut their hand in a car door and cripple it, to make them think twice the next time about it again. They just go on welfare and we end up paying for it and them in the end. No I think the answer is somewhere else, more towards of leveling out the money distribution system between the haves and the haves not's. Yes the one's who do these things of this natures for sport need to die. They will just put them in solitaire if the population finds out because the prison system would be held accountable. Even in the 20th century they hung people for sexual abuse Quote Since the introduction of the electric chair in 1890, the number of hangings have steadily decreased. In 1936 Rainey Bethea was hanged after he was convicted of rape. Over 20,000 people came to Owensboro, Kentucky to witness Bethea's execution. Many scholars maintain that the unprecedented nationwide attention and coverage the execution received caused the United States to outlaw public executions. Therefore, Bethea was the last individual to be hanged publicly in the United States.[15] Since Bethea's execution, states have slowly been eliminating hanging as means of execution altogether. Delaware's Billy Bailey was the last criminal to be hanged in the United States. Bailey was just the third criminal to be hanged since 1965, the other two being Charles Rodman Campbell and Westley Allan Dodd. Presently, only the states of Washington, Delaware, and New Hampshire provide hanging as an available method of execution. As of 2015, Texas remains the only state in the union that authorizes hanging as a legal form of execution for those on death row. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_in_the_United_States nationwide attention is what we need . The laws of my forefathers that my nation was made on should still stand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 28 minutes ago, dMog said: the problem with that is where do you draw the line on state sanctioned killing...and then there is the fact that it takes 10 years of courts AFTER someone is sentenced to death not to mention the proven fact several people have been put to death that were in fact proven inocent after the fact... not to mention how many people are actually inocent serving life sentences... the courts are not perfect but we do have sad to admit law enforcement and state and federal prosecutes that themselves live on the wrong side of the law...very seldom have prosecutors admitted to doing wrong when it has been proven they suppressed evidence proving someone to be inocent when they sent them to jail or to death...in my home town police and prosecutors at the time actually suppressed evidence that pointed to the real rapist and killer of a rape murder that took place in 1964...they coerced witnesses...fabricated evidence and sent an Innocent 17 year old to jail for life ...during the investigation the real killers wife came to police and told them she thought her husband was the killer and had very credible evidence to prove it... the cops not only discounted her story but kept it from the press and the defense with the help of the prosecutor...the real killer by the way was already going through the courts on extremely similar rape charges and the prosecutors quietly asked for change of venues to some small backwater town that had a courthouse so the press would not notice...the kid was found guilty sentenced and his mother never gave up and 25 years later had him exonerated...but road blocks set up at every turn by police and prosecutors over this 25 year process.... dna finally exonerated him and was also proven to catch the real criminal...but not after the real killer was set free form jail for his other crimes ... and by the way this guy...i saw him every day for year monday to friday as he hung out in the mall where i worked and was stalking some of the female coworkers i had...the police however said the they wee powerless to stop him as the laws as written made it plain he was not breaking any laws....he was one of those guys that when he looked at you the hair would stand up on the back of your neck....very scary guy Were I live we still have the Death Plenty as far as a minor they cant be charged as a adult no ways . It should be exercised much more for rapist and pedos as well . Also someone can be charged wrong with Murder but we still kill them anyways. 31 U.S. states still have it were more for it than against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURbit Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 About prison's and repeat offenders - is that once they get accustom to living like this it's to much as a home away from home. We need to bring back Hard Labor (making big rocks into small rocks) . Road gangs working on the state roads like in cool hand Luke, make it very hard for them as a lesson, not a club their in and want to be a member of. Up at 4am and bed at 10 pm. I'm sorry to that the system fails some people who were wrongfully sentenced, my advice is hang in there and many loving people will work on things to bring it to light, and as technology advances so does your chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 17 minutes ago, SURbit said: About prison's and repeat offenders - is that once they get accustom to living like this it's to much as a home away from home. We need to bring back Hard Labor (making big rocks into small rocks) . Road gangs working on the state roads like in cool hand Luke, make it very hard for them as a lesson, not a club their in and want to be a member of. Up at 4am and bed at 10 pm. I'm sorry to that the system fails some people who were wrongfully sentenced, my advice is hang in there and many loving people will work on things to bring it to light, and as technology advances so does your chances. One of the problems with the system is they put a lot people in Jail that didn't do nothing really , because they owe debt . They don't help these people who owe debt find a job .Taxpayers have to pay for these peoples meals and food too. Also it causes it to be overcrowded But they help some drug dealer to find a job . All jail does is teach criminals to be better criminals and not get caught again . They are some people I went to school with though they have been in jail and of off and on there whole adult life . they like it. Living conditions vary from state to state but everywhere is full . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURbit Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Something on the TV lately in Indiana (I think it was) a man was raping his wife after she sleep from him doping her and she found videos on his phone of it. They had been married for 12 years when this happened. The Judge gave him 20 years I think & reduced it to 8 with home detention where the wife had to live with him still . Rape is Rape no matter who the person is - this Judge was met with community protests and didn't get reelected to set judging others. This is just one act where the community made a united decision for the good of itself. The man (husband) messed up again by having a girl friend that he was ordered not to do in the 8 years and being around minor children which he did too, so now he's locked away from his wife for violating his parole. The wife got peace from see her molester every day and deserves the justice finally due her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 hours ago, dMog said: the problem for law enforcement with this is off set by the fact that the image makers should not just the only target...the image viewers are the ones who also exploit and sexually abuse children don nt ever forget that fact please.... so be careful and think that through that you think they should not be targeted by law enforcement... when warrant laws were created there was no such thing as the internet cops as well as lawmakers had NO IDEA or inkling that searching a single computer was likely to give them information on literally thousands of other law breakers... in this case the worst of the worst offenders sexual predators who target children....i do agree that the laws need to be looked at and changed but really.... do you think they have to get one warrant for one person only to find 3 to 5 thousand sexual child predators then be hogtied because you think the warrant did not cover their presence in child exploitation only because they are not residing at the residence of the searched computer.... it is what is here and there has o be a compromise when it comes to laws to catch these people and still protect others liberties at the same time... what ever happened to us that we think criminals need to be protected ...we do you and i yes we do but the asshats that do shit like this... no way I don't disagree with your sentiment - but believe that removing the source is far more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 This also shows how easy it would be for people who go to torrent sites , are if they ever tired to ban freedom of speech How easy it is for the FBI to hijack a website . I posted about it before I don't go on the darknet but i have used tor as a proxy on the open internet if you use it . it's best to only use it in layers of protection with a vpn . When megaupload got took down by the FBI they got millions of ips and there files too . That shows the cloud is not a very safe place and how dumb people are . That case is not over with yet ether . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURbit Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Quote This also shows how easy it would be for people who go to torrent sites , are if they ever tired to ban freedom of speech How easy it is for the FBI to hijack a website . I posted about it before It's getting so that it's not going to be a free internet as like it started, where you can come and go with some form of privacy and anonymity. You think it will be, say you need to use the internet you'll need to have a pass card of some form. Maybe like a debit or credit card has the chip that registers to the reader your account, new devices like phones or computers, tablets will be shipped with one installed already and registered to owner but, anything older that can use the internet will need a token that's registered to you. Every data bit and byte will be counted to someone this way, we still may have some privacy till an upload or download is involved then your known and it's counted - what you did and what it was. I'm not talking money, I'm talking in addition to money that every bit of data is registered to someone be it uploaded or downloaded. Really a website loading a image in to your browser would be registered, an email with an ad image would be recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 18 minutes ago, SURbit said: It's getting so that it's not going to be a free internet as like it started, where you can come and go with some form of privacy and anonymity. You think it will be, say you need to use the internet you'll need to have a pass card of some form. Maybe like a debit or credit card has the chip that registers to the reader your account, new devices like phones or computers, tablets will be shipped with one installed already and registered to owner but, anything older that can use the internet will need a token that's registered to you. Every data bit and byte will be counted to someone this way, we still may have some privacy till an upload or download is involved then your known and it's counted - what you did and what it was. I'm not talking money, I'm talking in addition to money that every bit of data is registered to someone be it uploaded or downloaded. Really a website loading a image in to your browser would be registered, an email with an ad image would be recorded. When it gets this bad i will stop using the computer other than just to buy things or pay bills . I will go back to renting dvds and copying them for personal library and rec music from the radio , basically that's what going to do is put technology back to before we had the internet and it want be any fun no more .And i will just say screw it and go back to doing what i done in the 90s before i bought a PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge-Spammer Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 25 minutes ago, SURbit said: It's getting so that it's not going to be a free internet as like it started, where you can come and go with some form of privacy and anonymity. You think it will be, say you need to use the internet you'll need to have a pass card of some form. Maybe like a debit or credit card has the chip that registers to the reader your account, new devices like phones or computers, tablets will be shipped with one installed already and registered to owner but, anything older that can use the internet will need a token that's registered to you. Every data bit and byte will be counted to someone this way, we still may have some privacy till an upload or download is involved then your known and it's counted - what you did and what it was. I'm not talking money, I'm talking in addition to money that every bit of data is registered to someone be it uploaded or downloaded. Really a website loading a image in to your browser would be registered, an email with an ad image would be recorded. i seen a videos somewere was Kaspersky boss talking about id on line users have to use a passport pic and things like at ill see if i can see the video again as he seemed to think the same about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namek Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 If they've caught simple content viewers, that doesn't mean anything. The content creators should be punished. Once i was interested in how long it takes to find such a content. I found it pretty fast. So to find i have to view it. But i find it disgusting, and if in any way my ip or any my private info were on the time of investigation, i would be punished for nothing....I wish they had caught right people, but since FBI earned "Great" reputation, i don't believe a word of it. They might just haven't done anything, and to show to the public they do something, created a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pequi Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 5 hours ago, steven36 said: The problem is there to easy with these people when they catch them I think if there would be tougher laws like were in the 1800s were they give you the death penalty for any type of sexual abuse then people would think twice about committing these crimes and would be much easier to catch the people that don't care if they live or die. Jail is too good for these people . Most will get out and do it again. Hang everyone that's charged in a court of law for sexual abuse that will be doing something too stop it. And long live legal murder by governments. People access child porn for 3 reasons: curiosity, accidentally or because they are mentally ill. The people that exploit the children, making the movies/pictures, OTOH, do it for only one reason: profit. They are possibly not even pedophiles themselves. Governments track the first group for blackmail or to feed the private prison industry. You very rarely see anything about the producers of the obscene material going to trial. Nor is there any effort to identify and help the exploited children. Sorry Steven, I usually agree with you, but having lived under a dictatorship where you shit your pants when the police came knocking, and judges are still bought in their hundreds, killing the "presumable consumers" will not solve anything. I'll believe in the FBI when they start targeting the actual producers and helping their victims. Until then, I see it as another "war on drugs" propaganda made to invade your privacy. PS I have not dated anyone under 50 in the last 5 years - I like them young (er)..... I see pedophiles as humans that have their brains wired the wrong way. They should be treated/isolated/labelled/tracked or whatever, but not killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven36 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 14 minutes ago, Pequi said: And long live legal murder by governments. People access child porn for 3 reasons: curiosity, accidentally or because they are mentally ill. The people that exploit the children, making the movies/pictures, OTOH, do it for only one reason: profit. They are possibly not even pedophiles themselves. Governments track the first group for blackmail or to feed the private prison industry. You very rarely see anything about the producers of the obscene material going to trial. Nor is there any effort to identify and help the exploited children. Sorry Steven, I usually agree with you, but having lived under a dictatorship where you shit your pants when the police came knocking, and judges are still bought in their hundreds, killing the "presumable consumers" will not solve anything. I'll believe in the FBI when they start targeting the actual producers and helping their victims. Until then, I see it as another "war on drugs" propaganda made to invade your privacy. PS I have not dated anyone under 50 in the last 5 years - I like them young (er)..... I see pedophiles as humans that have their brains wired the wrong way. They should be treated/isolated/labelled/tracked or whatever, but not killed. I understand you're point a view but i will never agree with you because i would hurt anyone myself if i ever found out they touched one of my kids . So it would be better off for to law too do it then me, Back in the 1800s if the law didn't do it they would get a lynch mob and the towns would . I have no pity for people like this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge-Spammer Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 if i can i give Pequi a dislike i have some knowledge in this topic and u are wrong Spoiler The Hunt For Britains Paedophiles part 1 of 3 in them 3 videos u see things that will make u think and not like trust me all people like him or them men are bad people and u can never fix them never watch all 3 videos be for u comment back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dMog Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 8 hours ago, SURbit said: Something on the TV lately in Indiana (I think it was) a man was raping his wife after she sleep from him doping her and she found videos on his phone of it. They had been married for 12 years when this happened. The Judge gave him 20 years I think & reduced it to 8 with home detention where the wife had to live with him still . Rape is Rape no matter who the person is - this Judge was met with community protests and didn't get reelected to set judging others. This is just one act where the community made a united decision for the good of itself. The man (husband) messed up again by having a girl friend that he was ordered not to do in the 8 years and being around minor children which he did too, so now he's locked away from his wife for violating his parole. The wife got peace from see her molester every day and deserves the justice finally due her. in Canada judges are appointed and not elected...hard to get rid of the ones that do the wrong thing behind the bench up here in canada,,,in fact we had one family court judge that for well over 23 years told women that were getting beat up by their husbands...and i quote him here.... " maybe if you were more obedient and more attentive of your husbands needs in the bedroom he would not beat you" and dismiss the charges... he was finally asked to stop taking spousal abuse cases a few months before he retired... big deal eh...he sure got put in his place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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